HH: Well, you're originally from Cleveland, Tn. When did you first become aware of Coach. Diddle and Western Basketball?
BC: Really my freshman year of high school when Dee Gibson was a senior and we won the state championship at Bradley High School in Cleveland. I didn't play with Dee since he was three years ahead of me but that's the first time that I became aware of Western Kentucky, when Dee came to Western before the war. Then I finished high school and went in the service for two years. Of course Dee played two years up here before the war and then in 1946 & '47 when we all got out of the service I came up here just for a visit. When I finished high school the only scholarship I had was at Tennessee Tech and I went to school over there a month before I was drafted and aimed to go back there but I didn't get out of the service until like October 4th and that's when school had already started here at Western, they were on quarters. I had visited several schools, I played two years in the service, in the Pacific after the war was over. There were several outstanding ballplayers there.....the Rader (sp?) twins were All-Americans at LIU and Dollie King was the first All-American at LIU....I played on a team over in Manila with them. And when I got out of the service I first went to Long Island University for a visit but I didn't particularly like it and Clair Bee let me come home (Laughs).

Then Dee contacted me and the first time I met Mr. Diddle was in Diddle Dorm, and he was sick then....his ankles were swollen up 12 inches big, you know, and Dee took me in and introduced me and he looked at my hands and at my feet. And he didn't know it at the time but I could dunk the ball before I came to Western, but he didn't know it at the time so he told Dee to take me on over to the gym and Mr. Hornback was having some workouts. (Laughs) The funniest thing, I had been playing the year round in the service when I got out and at that time I didn't know McKinney (Oran), All-American McKinney and Spears (Odie) but I knew Dee, I knew Dee was a great ballplayer. So I went out there and started playing and they put me on the second team, they were scrimmaging you know, and there were two or three times that I got snowbirds and I dunked the ball. Dollie King was the first one to teach me....he was a big 6' 10" All-American from LIU, but anyway, I could dunk the ball before I went there, but back then they said if you could dunk the ball Mr. Diddle would give you a scholarship(Laughs).

Of course we were all GIs, I ended up coming to Western on four years of a GI scholarship. So we were practicing and after about 10 or 15 minutes and all of a sudden I heard somebody say, "Buddy," and Mr. Diddle by his office he had a window there that looked into the old gym, and he said, "Come here, come here." Somebody had gone over and told Mr. Diddle that I could dunk the ball and so he had his pajamas on and he had his bathrobe on and it was cold, it was the last of October. So he says, "Come down and get dressed." So I went and got dressed and went back to his office and he began to ask me questions. I said "Coach, I'm planning to go back to Tennessee Tech but I'm not going to start until next year." He said, "You ought to just start right now, I want you right now." And he started that great sales talk. It still didn't interest me too much then, I didn't pay much attention. I was still going home, I had been away from home, overseas for 24 months. I hadn't been home but a day. I made one mistake (Laughs) If I hadn't asked Mr. Diddle one question I wouldn't be here today. We went up there on top of the old football stadium and it was cold, and he started that salesmanship on me and after about 15 or 20 minutes I said, "Mr. Diddle it's cold." So we went over to the Home Ec building, West Hall, Potter Hall and the gym, and Cherry Hall. So we had stood there at the football stadium and in 15 minutes I thought I owned the football stadium, the gym and both of the girl's dorms. I thought that he had given them to me (Laughs). I said, "Mr. Diddle, I'm not going to start to school until next year." He said, "I want you to stay here, get in the dorm with Dee, practice with us and I'll take you on all of the trips. Now you won't be able to play until you register on January 3rd" (Laughs). But to make a long story short, finally I talked him into letting me go home and I'll come back to see you when the quarter starts after Christmas, and finally I convinced him of that. So we started walking over to the dorm and we got over to Diddle Dorm and I said, "Mr. Diddle, how do you get to Lexington?" And he said, "Lexington? Why in the world would you want to go to Lexington for?" And at that time I didn't know coach rupp, just like I didn't know Mr. Diddle. I was just a country boy from Tennessee, you know. You had radios but no TVs and I didn't really read about them in the paper or anything. I didn't call him mr. rupp, I think I called him Roop or something, I didn't call him by his right name. What had happened, I had played ball with a Nash guy that went to uk and he had written rupp and rupp told me to come by and visit. Back then schools could work you out, it was legal then for a guy to just work out. But anyway, I was going up to see Mr. Roop (Laughs). And when I said that Mr. Diddle put it in second gear. He said, "Oh, you don't want to see that man." (Laughs) And it just fascinated me. And he said, "Ohhh, he'll tell you anything." He said, "Lexington, I don't even know how you get there, it's just hard to get there" (Laughs). And to make a long story short, he spent the next hour with me over there at the dorm, and didn't chain me down but I stayed. He didn't even let me go home, until Christmas, I went home at Christmas. He said, "We'll send for your clothes." (Laughs). But that's my story of coming to Western. And I practiced with them every day and dressed out every game in uniform and I wasn't even in school, but I wasn't eligible to play. I registered January 3rd and when I got eligible, on January 4th he put me in for 10 seconds. And for two years I sat on the bench and of course when the five All-Americans graduated I played regular my junior and senior year. But I played in every game just a minute or two, but see, he had five All-Americans. I played regular my junior and senior year but I didn't play much at all my first two years. We had a second team then that could win the OVC. In fact, my sophomore year, those All-Americans they had an alumni game after the NIT Tournament in the gym and it was a full house. And we beat the five All-Americans in a game and that's when Mr. Diddle thought we were going to be better than everybody else thought. See we won 15 straight games my junior year before we lost one when Eastern beat us over there. We started out and everybody didn't think Western was going to have anything because they lost the All-Americans but they had almost five All-Americans back (Laughs).

HH: Now the teams you played on went a combined 103-16 for those four years. Talk about some of those teams and players that you played with.
BC: Mr freshman year we had Dee Gibson was an All-American. Of course Chalmers Embry was the only senior on that team that year in '47. Oran McKinney, who was an All-American his freshman year at Western before he went in the service and he came back. Odie Spears was an All-American and Don Ray and then John Oldham. That was the five All-Americans. We had an All-American that was a sub really, John Oldham was a sub his sophomore year and he was an All-American (Laughs). That's how good they were

HH: What about Odie Spears? Was he maybe the best one?
BC: I would truthfully say......I don't think there was much difference....they were all different types of ballplayers....Don Ray was great in his jumpshot, you know, and rebounding. Odie could rebound and shoot. Oran McKinney was a terrific center....they were different types. Of course Dee Gibson was a great one and he was the quarterback, the smart one. In his high school days they won 44 straight games and the state tournament. They were all good......great. And it would be hard to pick one over the other.

HH: Do you remember very much about the games in the NIT?
BC: Yeah, we went three straight years, my sophomore, junior and senior years, but we should have gone my freshman year but didn't, we had a 25-4 record but didn't get invited. Of course there were just 12 teams that got invited then. My junior year we were playing Bradley and that was when Bradley, there weren't many schools doing it then, they were playing 10 ballplayers. They would play five for a quarter take them out and then put five more in. That just started around '48 when a lot of the colleges started doing that. Well, Mr. Diddle, that wasn't his philosophy. If you were a regular for him, you were a regular. You'd have to have a broken leg before you would come off the floor. And that's the reason he played five people.

HH: So he didn't substitute very much?
BC: He didn't substitute unless you had a broken leg or were in foul trouble, you know. But that was his philosophy. He wouldn't take you out if you got behind like some coaches do today. Mr. Diddle would leave you out there and say I'm going to embarrass you more if you don't start playing. So you would come back. you know. Half of our games sometimes we were down 10 or 15 points at the half and we knew we were going to win in that last quarter. Because he was going to leave you out there, that was his philosophy. One thing I noticed all the years I was here that coaches don't do nowadays....Mr. Diddle never did coach during a ballgame. He let you play. Now he would coach you in practice, stomp you and correct you. But in a ballgame he wanted you to play and he would pat you on the butt. I don't know of a player that he ever scolded during a ballgame. Now he might at the half, or after the game, but not during a ballgame. That was the reason he won so many games I think. That was his philosophy, to let you play during a ballgame and have fun. But practices were work. We used to hate practices.

HH: What was Ted Hornback's role on the team?
BC: Ted Hornback....Mr. Diddle let him do the strategy. He was an outstanding coach at that. Your defense or how to stop their All-American or something. He was the greatest strategy coach I ever knew. He was terrific. And Mr. Diddle could do it but he let Ted do it.

HH: In those NIT games you guys came really close to winning it and a lot of times I guess you should have won it all. Do you think it really bothered Mr. Diddle that you all never got over the hump and won the national championship?
BC: Well, he was too big a man for that. He was always......he'd never scold you when you were down. It's when you had success when he knocked you down. You've heard about those little pow-wow rooms over there every Monday. "Skull Practice" we called it. He'd line the 15 players up and he'd get in the center and he'd start in on everybody, one at a time. Sometimes it would last an hour or two.
HH: What did he say?
BC: He'd say something about everybody and the other 14 would just be rolling, you'd be laughing it was so comical. He'd be out there in the middle and he'd say, "Dee Gibson." Dee would stand up and Mr. Diddle would say, "I'm Dee Gibson, I'm an All-American. Pit-pat. Pit-pat. My grandma, she's 90 and she can get the ball down the court faster than you could. Pit-pat. He would do things like that in order to criticize the individual but that was always when you played a great game because you had another game coming up two days later and he wanted to get you back down to reality. I think of one thing when you said NIT, this was Madison Square Garden. That real good team, the '48 team, we played Canisius, we always played three games on that road trip to New York. One would be in Madison Square Garden. Sometimes it would be in Washington, sometimes at St. Joe's but we always played Canisius first. So we beat them and played a pretty good game. The next night we were playing Long Island University in the Garden and we were about 14 or 15 points ahead at the half and Mr. Diddle would never do the same thing twice at a ballgame. Before or after there was always something different. And so, you never did know what to expect at the half. So we were all in there and naturally everybody was happy. Mr. Hornback was trying to talk to everybody and Mr. Diddle didn't come, the door never opened. We were sitting there and sitting there for about 5 or 10 minutes. Then after a while we saw the door open and Mr. Diddle stuck his head in and just looked at everybody and didn't say a word. He reached over and grabbed a big chair up and threw it through a big plate window in Madison Square Garden. It later cost him $300 and some odd dollars. He didn't say another word. He just turned and went out. Well, it shocked everybody. We were too happy, see. Of course we went out there and won that game. The next night we went and played St. Joe's and we were behind about 10 points at the half and everybody was sitting in the dressing room at the half and not a word was said, our heads were down. It was just quiet. Mr. Hornback wasn't saying a word. He did not come in that night. Then about a minute or two before the half started he opened that door and he could write a book looking at you and he looked at all twelve ballplayers, just looked at everybody. He just went around the room in there, didn't say a word. Then finally after he looked at everybody, he says, "Pardon me ladies, I thought this was a men's room." Then he turned and went out. That was the only thing he said at the half. Then we won that game, we won all three games that year (Laughs) .On the other side now, sometimes when he stomped you during practice....I guess one night my junior year I probably played the sorriest game I had ever played at Western at home. I used to play better on the road than I did at home, I don't know why, but anyway, we had beaten some team but I had stunk it up I thought, I hadn't done a thing. I blew layups, you know, and didn't play good defense. So the game was over and we went down to the dressing room and of course I was so mad at myself I couldn't even get in the shower and everybody else was laughing and talking, you know. All of a sudden that door slammed. Sometimes he was happy and sometimes....but this time he slammed that door, and we won that game, it was one of those runaways. But I hadn't played a game at all and we were getting ready to play, I think it was Louisville the next game, and so he started in on everybody. He started in on Oldham, he started in on Givens, he started in on Rip Gish, All-American Bob Lavoy. He told them they stunk it up, and they had all played great. And I thought, "Oh, Lord, he'll kill me." But he waited for me to the last. He got on everybody in that room but me. The last two he was on he was kindly over hitting me on the back behind me talking to them. So finally he got through with everybody else and he looked up and said, "Ted, I'm glad Buddy was on our side tonight. I thought he was going to jump out of that gym. He got a rebound, he went 20 feet high." I had gotten one rebound that night (Laughs). And he said, "I'm glad he was on our side tonight. He wants to play." So the next game I played a good game. He'd start a week before to motivate you though. He was something, but he never did the same thing twice. See, he never would do that again, it would be something else.

HH: Do you have a favorite story about Mr. Diddle that's maybe not as widely known as some of the others?
BC: Well, the funniest one is that orange story. We went to Miami, we played two games down there in Miami, the University of Miami, and they came up here and played two games, but anyway we won all four games. But we rode a train, we didn't fly. I was my junior year because Lavoy was a center, an All-American center. So, Mrs. Diddle didn't go on the trip with us for some reason, so on the way back Mr. Diddle bought a big sack of oranges to bring Mrs. Diddle. And we got on the coach and put them up there on top of that rack, you know. Of course Mr. Diddle and Ken Givens, who was the radio announcer, and Kelly Thompson didn't stay in our car they usually stayed in the back caboose. So, there was a hole that come in the sack up there and all of the players reached up to get an orange to eat. So, an hour or two later we were out of Florida and up in Georgia, Mr. Diddle walked back and he looked up there and there wasn't nothing but that sack laying there, that orange sack. "Oh, My God. Who ate Mrs. Diddle's oranges?" Nobody said a word, we just sat there. So he fussed a little bit and just left and went back. Well, after about two or three minutes he came back up and he said, "I'll tell you what, I'm mad now. I want to know who ate my oranges. I don't know what I'm gonna do to you!" Nobody said a word, we all just sat there. He turned and went back and about five minutes later he came back with Kelly Thompson. He said, "Kelly I want you to look there, they ate my oranges. I've made my mind up that I'm going to stop this train if I find out who it is and just throw them off the train. Everybody didn't say a word, they just sat there. Then he says, "By God, Kelly I tell you what I'm going to do, I'm going to kick 'em off the team. I'm gonna kick 'em off the team. Now who did it?"
Bob Lavoy said, "Coach, I did it." Mr. Diddle said, "Heck, you didn't do this. Come to think of it I ate 'em Bob." (Laughs) The All-American center (Laughs).

HH: Well, what was it about Coach Diddle that made everyone love him so much, even to this day?
BC: Well, like I said, he's just that rare exception that you'll never run into. Everyone didn't always love him....you always respected him. Sometimes you thought you hated him.
HH: When you were playing for him?
BC: While you were playing for him. I don't know of any player that played for Mr. Diddle that's ever referred to Mr. Diddle as "Coach Diddle." They always say "Mr. Diddle". Now I've never run into any kentucky players that called rupp, Mr. rupp, they'd say coach rupp. There's not as much respect. That's my opinion. I've heard stories and been around their players. We played in the NIT that first year when Beard and their five All-Americans were there and they never did have the respect for their coach that we did. It was just that rare thing with Mr. Diddle. There will never be another one like him. You didn't think you ever knew him. But I got to know him better after I played for him, years later.

HH: What do you think Mr. Diddle thought about rupp. I know rupp always refused to play.
BC: He hated that. He disliked him I think (Laughs). He told me the first time I mentioned anything about him, "You don't want to see that man." I think he respected him as a coach, but their philosophies were different. Because Mr. Diddle never did, that I ever heard, when he was in a crowd....one person or two persons or fifty. He never did say anything about his players that wasn't nice and outstanding. Now rupp, some of his players....he wouldn't speak to them sometimes in a hotel lobby, you know, in public. Now that was a difference. Really, Mr. Diddle was kind of like a father to you, you know. He was going to discipline you but he still loved you. He knew what you were going to do before you did it. He told me that one time. The four years I was at Western....we were all GIs, we had been in the service and we had a curfew at 9:00 and in bed at 9:30. Of course Mr. Diddle didn't worry about you being because of all of those practices I told you about. I didn't feel like doing anything after three and a half hours of practice (Laughs). Except get in that bed. But when I was a freshman, we always used to have to go to chapel every Wednesday. It was required of all students. And of course Mr. Diddle had the basketball team over in Van Meter and they sat down front....you'd better be there. So, my roommate was Roy Mann, from Hartford, who played ball with John Oldham. After two or three weeks I said, "Roy, let's stop going to chapel." He said, "Oh, we'd better or Mr. Diddle will get us." I said, "No, he's out of town. He's gone to Louisville. Let's go downtown and get us a Coke." At that time I believe there were about 17 drug stores in Louisville. There was one on every corner downtown. And where the Bowling Green Bank is now there was an old drugstore there and they had a fountain and Cokes were a nickel then, in 1946-47. At that time Mr. Diddle had the wrong philosophy (Laughs). He wouldn't let drink water or Coke, You weren't supposed to drink water in practice and we didn't. But now they've changed that over the years, you're supposed to drink a lot of water during practice. But anyway, I talked Roy into going. I said, "There's nobody over there in that drugstore. Just one person, the guy at the fountain. Let's go over there and get a Coke." So we went over there and ordered two Coca-Colas and the guy put 'em down in front of us and we both picked them and just as we got 'em at the mouth....."By God, freshmen put that damn Coke down." It was Mr. Diddle. He was behind us. He said, "Get in that durn chapel and don't let me see you back in here again." That was the only time I ever broke training. Now that was Mr. Diddle. He probably thought the night before what we was going to do. So we never did cut chapel the next four years (Laughs).

HH: There was always a lot of talk about kentucky's Fab Five at that time but you guys had EIGHT All-Americans on your team. What do you think would have happened if you'd have had the chance to play those guys.
BC: I believe we could have beat them home and home. I mean, they might have beat us and we would have beat them, I think. Because we saw 'em play a lot, Beard and Groza and all of them. We come very close to playing them. They let Loyola beat them and we got beat by ?????. If we would have won our game and that was the game uk was supposed to have thrown...the scandal. We would have played the next night. It did happen over 20 years later when Oldham played them and beat 'em. But I wouldn't say we could have beaten them every game but I think we would have won fifty percent of the games. On a neutral floor it would have been a toss-up.

HH: Does that bother you that you guys never were able to win the NIT championship?
BC: Not really. Naturally, you would have liked to, you know. But we had such a good time and great teams.
HH: You guys were really at a disadvantage too because you were going to Madison Square Garden and most of the teams were from New York. So it was sort of like a homecourt for them.
BC: That's right. And they called that "pick" on us all the time, the moving pick. You couldn't run across the floor. They've changed that a little now but what's changed it is those teams had to come south a lot in the last 30 or 40 years. That's why you could beat 'em down here. But we held our own up there and we didn't lose really but one game out of that regular season trip up east except when I was senior and I missed it and they won one and lost two of 'em. But my sophomore and junior years we won all six of them, which was hard to do. But St. Louis had a great team that won it that beat us that year (1948) and they won the NIT with "Easy" Ed McCauley. He was probably at that time the greatest, smoothest center that I ever saw play. Left or right hooks....and he played in St. Louis professionally for 8 or 10 years.

HH: You played a year of pro ball?
BC: I played one year of pro ball. I really got drafted by Philadelphia and didn't go to them. Then Sheboygan drafted me but before the season started I was put on waivers and ended up.....well, I played 22 games with the Grand Rapid Hornets, where "Blackie" (Carlisle) Towery was my player/coach then. Then that team folded and then I was picked up by Waterloo, Iowa and played about four months with them. They were called the Waterloo Hawks in the old professional league. But I only played one year professionally.

HH: After that you started coaching?
BC: I started coaching. I coached for several years in high school then I was down at Tennessee Wesleyan College for seven years.
HH: Where did you coach high school?
BC: I coached three years out at Warren Central, three years out at Warren East, one year at Scottsville and one year at Auburn and then I was down at Tennessee Wesleyan. I ended up....I was an assistant coach of the Kentucky Colonels for one year. Actually I've coached on all levels, junior high, high school, college and pro.
HH: Is that when Gene Rhodes was the coach of the Colonels?
BC: Well, John Givens.... my roommate was John Givens at Western and he started out as head coach of the Colonels for about two months and got relieved and Rhodes came up and I finished with Rhodes that first year. I really coached under Rhodes and John Givens. And that's where I became good friends with darel carrier and Bobby Rascoe. They played on the team and we became good friends and we've been friends about thirty years.
HH: Did you ever play Western when you coached at Tenn. Wesleyan?
BC: Oh no. I had more sense (Laughs). We didn't have full scholarships, we only had half scholarships.

HH: If you had to pick an All-Time starting five from Western all throughout the past who would that be?
BC: Well, it would hard to pick five. But I could pick ten (Laughs). You've got to throw Tom Marshall and Clem Haskins in that bunch. Other than those two, the five All-Americans....Oldham, Marshall, Haskins. Bobby Rascoe would be pretty close to that ten too. Now Darel was a great shooter but he was unlucky and didn't play on winning teams. That was the only negative thing....if he would've had some more All-Americans with him they would have probably won 'em all (Laughs). But he and Bobby Rascoe were outstanding players here too. And the two Smith boys (Dwight & Greg) were outstanding.

HH: What about Tom Marshall? You always hear a lot about him.....
BC: I think he was....all-around the most outstanding ballplayer that I saw during the forty or fifty years I've been associated with Western. He was an outstanding guard, he could play forward, or he could play center and he could play defense.....when he wanted to play. I don't know of any individual that had more ability than Tom Marshall. There were some just as good as him but if I had to pick one player and I was going to coach a team I would want Tom Marshall on my team first....playing guard probably.
HH: I heard he had the talent but he didn't always have the desire maybe?
BC: That's right.
HH: Someone told me that he may have been the best player in the entire country, at ANY level.
BC: And in pro ball he was outstanding but he could have been greater. He had natural ability, oh he just had natural ability. But he was one of our Tennessee boys too. I was coaching at Warren Central the three years that he was playing here and I saw him play most all of the home games. But we've had a lot of outstanding ballplayers at Western in the last 50 years. Just like Crosthwaite, nobody rates him high but he was probably the most outstanding center we've ever had. Mr. Diddle was probably the only one that offered him a scholarship I think. As a freshman they would be ten points behind and he'd put Crosthwaite out there for ten minutes and he'd have ten straight points (Laughs). And then he just kept coming and coming. By the end of his freshman year he was terrific from 10' on in on the goal. I think his shooting percentage was way up there...60% shooting or better. Art Spoelstra, who's going in the Hall of Fame, was outstanding center that we had here too. He was like Crosthwaite, he just kept developing every game, you know. That was Mr. Diddle's philosophy I believe....he made you better every day or he ran you off. We were always better at the end of the season and we were pretty good when we started. Some teams now get worse every game. I just don't understand it. Even if you don't have great ability you can form a TEAM. Of course that was Mr. Diddle's concept......teamwork, play together. And I think that goes a long way.